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Podcast Episode 5: Grant Jolliff

Podcast Episode 5: Grant Jolliff

In the most recent episode of the Learning Conversations podcast, I sat down and talked with Davidson-Davie English instructor, Grant Jolliff. Among the various topics, we chatted about were his experiences teaching in an Active Learning Classroom and his work with the Piedmont Teaching & Learning Hub. Enjoy!

Video Transcript


00:00:01.000 –> 00:00:16.000 {Music}

Phil Tietjen: Okay. Hello everyone. Welcome to the next episode of the Learning Conversations Podcast. In this podcast, we talk to people involved with various aspects of the community college experience with a special focus on teaching and learning. And our guest, our special guest for this episode is, uh, Grant Jolliff, am I pronouncing your last name correctly?

Grant Jolliff: You sure are.

Phil Tietjen: Great. Fantastic. Yeah. Uh, and Grant is an English instructor here at Davidson-Davie Community College. Welcome, Grant.

Grant Jolliff: Thank you. Good to be here.

Phil Tiejten: Great. Thanks. I’m really glad you could join us. Uh, so let’s start a little bit with your background. Um, for those that don’t already know you, cause I know you’ve been here a while. Uh, can you tell us a little about yourself? Um, how long have you been here at the college? Uh, what are some of the classes you teach, that kind of thing?

Grant Jolliff: So I’ve been teaching at the college since 2015. I started adjuncting in 2015, and then in 2019, that infamous year, I started teaching full time.

Phil Tietjen: Mm-hmm

Grant Jolliff: And, uh, I teach English 111, English 112, English 114. And, uh, also the literature courses, English 231, 232, 241, 242.

Phil Tietjen: Okay. Great. So, quite a variety.

Grant Jolliff: Yes. Quite a variety.

Phil Tietjen: Is there like one course in particular that you really enjoy teaching. More than others?

Grant Jolliff: I enjoy teaching the English 111 and English 112. Uh, luckily, because that’s mostly what, what we teach.

Phil Tietjen: Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Right.

Grant Jolliff: But I also enjoy the English 231 American Lit Beginnings to 1865. All right. I find that, uh, challenging and rewarding for all involved.

Phil Tietjen: All right, fantastic. And one 112 if memory serves, that’s more kind of a research writing oriented class, right?

Grant Jolliff: Well, yeah. Uh, for, for mine, they, they can differ from instructor to instructor, but for mine, they’re both research focused. English 111 and English 112. It’s just that in English 112 or more apt to build off the research techniques that we learned in English 111.

Phil Tietjen: Mm-hmm.

Grant Jolliff: And to go, um, into, uh, not just MLA, but also APA.

Phil Tietjen: Mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

Grant Jolliff:  And also in English 112, the focus is on, um, writing that you might do in different disciplines as well. Not just, um, the standard five paragraph research paper, but you might go into the white paper, you might go into, uh, some sort of, uh, an analysis paper or, um, cause and effect paper.

Phil Tietjen: Mmm-hmm.

Grant Jolliff:  And talk about how that writing can be applied to the “real-world experience.:

Phil Tietjen: Mm-hmm. Yeah. That could be really good for students in terms of preparing them for, you know, whatever kind of jobs, uh, they end up doing after, uh, graduation. Yeah. Great. Um, since this is, uh, really about teaching and learning in this podcast, I thought one thing that would be really, um, nice, um, for me to hear, but definitely also for people who are kind of listening to the podcast, is for you to, uh, maybe share like, uh, one example of either a learning activity that you’ve done in your, in your teaching or an assignment that you use that you find really resonates with  students, that’s kind of one of your go-tos. Could you, would you mind sharing one of.


Grant Jolliff:  Yeah. So most recently I’ve been teaching in an active learning classroom. We have these wonderful new active learning classrooms that have been set up for us. And, uh, this fall, what’s my first experience teaching in one of the active learning classrooms. And so I went hog wild with all kinds of active learning strategies and techniques and, uh, we’re all teched out in that room too. So we’re just kind of, uh, loving that and enjoying it. But one of the things that I did at first to kind of test out what my students knew about writing is have them do group papers.

Phil Tietjen: Interesting.

Grant Jolliff:  Write out from the gate.

Phil Tietjen: Mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

Grant Jolliff: And, right out from the gate and they’re in their little pods and they’ve got their laptops and they’ve got the screen associated with their pod, and they can see, see what their whole class is doing, and, and they’re typing away. And really what it turned into was kind of deconstructing the college paper and the college writing experience.

Phil Tietjen: Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

Grant Jolliff:  And what I learned and what I observed was that students know a lot more than what they let on about writing papers when they enter a first year composition course.

Phil Tietjen: Hmm.

Grant Jolliff: They really do know a lot more than what they let on.

Phil Tietjen: Mm-hmm. <affirmative> fascinating.

Grant Jolliff:  And that kind of changed the way that I approached the class I am doing,  um, much more. Uh, I am trying to, and in every class now, trying to dig in and activate what they’ve, what they are coming into the class with.

Phil Tietjen:  Mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah.

Grant Jolliff:  And it’s much more empowering to the students.

Phil Tietjen: Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, <affirmative>.


Grant Jolliff:  Uh, and it really makes for I think, a, um, a less brutal class for them. They’re not listening to me tell them things they already know.

Phil Tietjen: Yeah, absolutely. Yep.

Grant Jolliff:  We’re kind of sitting down and working through things and figuring out what they already know, and then I’m just kind of  popping in there and adding as needed.

Phil Tietjen: Mm-hmm. <Affirmative>. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> Fascinating. Yeah. I’m a big fan of collaborative learning. Um, so I’m curious a little, if you could share me a little more detail on that. So are they using like Google Docs when they’re in the little pod too?

Grant Jolliff:  They are. Okay. They’re using Google Docs in their pod. Okay. And, uh, uh, also there is a, there’s one group leader who is projecting their screen, their computer screen onto the larger screen that is connected with their pod. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, each pod has a, uh, kind of like a flat screen tv, you know, like you would have in your living room. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they’ve got a flat screen TV connected with each pod mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And students can, uh project their screens onto that. And I can also incidentally override them and project my screen onto their mm-hmm. <affirmative>, their, their, um, flat screen TV too. But, um,in this group writing project, there’s one leader who sets up a Google Doc, shares it with everyone else in the group mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and then projects the, their Google Doc screen onto the, the big screen TV there. Nice. And I can see them all typing away. We can all see each other type away, and, uh, it’s a really great experience.

Phil Tietjen: Yeah. It does sound like it. Um, what’s like the prompt that you use? Uh, so is it like, uh, talk about your own personal experience or, um, what’s, what’s like one of like a kind of typical prompt that you?

Grant Jolliff:  For that I give them about a dozen choices.

Phil Tietjen: Nice. So you give ’em some agency and.

Grant Jolliff:  Yeah. So like, uh, what is the role of art in society? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, something like that. Or, um, What are the downsides to social media, or what are the positive sides to social media?

Phil Tietjen: I can definitely see that activating a lot of, uh, writing and discussion, you know?

Grant Jolliff:  Yeah. Very, some very general questions, but also I try to mix it up so it’s, it’s not just about, um, artsy things or media things. It could be about sports or it could be about families. Um, you know, just try to mix up the prompts a little bit mm-hmm. <affirmative> so that they can choose which one they want.

Phil Tietjen: Nice. So not only a multiplicity of questions, but also a variety of topics that they can choose from, that they can write on, uh, as a group. And, um, what I like about that too is that that way you, um, ensure that nobody feels like marginalized if they don’t know that much, for instance, about sports, it’s like, well, there’s gonna be another opportunity for them to write about a different topic, such as social media or maybe something  dealing with science or fine art or mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, that kind of thing. So.

Grant Jolliff:  Yes. And, and as a group, they’re, um, they are coming in with ideas on each of those topics. Cause I’ve, I’ve kind of given them the, the prompt before they come into class. Okay. So they present, uh, to their group what topic they would like their group to write on, and kind of pitch it to the group. And the group can either decide to go with one student’s topic or another student’s topic.

Phil Tietjen: Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> nice.  It’s a great use of technology too, uh, in terms of Google Docs and the visibility with the large screens and being able to share the, that, uh, those artifacts that they create on the screens in that uh, in that immersive classroom, so.

Grant Jolliff:  Right.

Phil Tietjen: That’s great. That’s great. Very cool. Uh, okay. So let’s, uh, shift over to, uh, some of your current work, uh, that you’re doing, uh, the, with the Piedmont Teaching and Learning Hub. It just sounds really fascinating to me. Um, so first of all, um, so you just started doing that this past summer, right? That’s when you first, uh, began the work with it?

Grant Jolliff:  Yes.

Phil Tietjen: Okay. So maybe tell us a little about what it is, kind of what your role is, and then we can maybe, uh, go from there.

Grant Jolliff:  So, the, uh, official title of this project is the, uh, teaching and learning hub of the Piedmont region.

Phil Tietjen: Okay.

Grant Jolliff:  North Carolina is divided into four regions, uh, for the purposes of the hubs mm-hmm. <affirmative> and, uh, there is a, hub for each of the 58 community colleges.

Phil Tiejten: Okay.

Grant Jolliff:  All right. And, um, so there’s the Eastern hub, and then there is the central

hub, there’s the Piedmont hub, which is what we’re in, and there’s the Western hub.

Phil Tiejten: Okay.

Grant Jolliff:  And so each hub has a, uh, two co-directors who are faculty members at host institutions. So for the Piedmont Hub, our, uh, ho co-host institution is Forsyth Tech.

Phil Tietjen: Mm. Okay. So, so it’s. It’s in.  Forsyth, it is Davidson-Davie and Forsyth. Okay. Gotcha.

Grant Jolliff:   And it’s, uh, myself and Kristen Redfield are the, the codirectors of the, the Piedmont. Hub.

Phil Tietjen : Okay. Okay.  Cool.

Grant Jolliff:  And our job is, we see it as threefold mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, to compliment what colleges are doing already in terms of professional learning.

Phil Tietjen: That’s good. Like building on what they’re already, you know, succeeding. At.

Grant Jolliff:  Right. There are some schools, and we’re kind of doing  a kind of PR blitz and, uh, doing a lot of interviews with other schools mm-hmm. <affirmative> currently. So we’ve been very interested to learn in about the variety of positions community colleges are in as far as professional learning mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So here at Davidson-Davie, we are blessed with a great Center for Teaching and Learning.

Phil Tietjen: Mm-hmm. <affirmative>,

Grant Jolliff:  uh, but other community colleges have had Centers for Teachers, Teaching and Learning for the past 10 years, and others don’t, don’t mm-hmm. <affirmative> have one at all.

Phil Tietjen: Mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

Grant Jolliff:  And so our job is not necessarily to come in and, and, uh, make a school do something mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative> or tell them how to do professional learning mm-hmm. <affirmative> or to, um, uh, do anything other than support what they’re doing and try also to offer added value to what they’re doing. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> through other professional learning programs brought on by us mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, another kind of goal is to provide bigger options or multi-institutions.

Phil Tietjen: Hmm.

Grant Jolliff:  So, for instance, if the, uh, if Davidson-Davie is doing one thing as far as professional learning, for instance, we’ve, we’ve talked a lot about the great leadership we’ve seen here on, uh, equitizing the syllabus.

Phil Tietjen: Oh, right. Right.

Grant Jolliff:  And in our, our broader general syllabus review that we went through and, and now we’ve been using this new syllabus template for a year and some mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

Phil Tietjen: Right.

Grant Jolliff:  Um, and all that work was great, and there were a lot of very passionate people working on that project. And so, um, we are thinking about, one of the ideas that’s kind of percolating from our PR blitz and our interviews with other community colleges is not just bringing on board some professional learning about equitizing, the syllabus, perhaps using some people from Davidson-Davie to present to other community colleges about equitizing the syllabus, or about going through a  syllabus revamping process. So that’s what I mean by, um, providing opportunities for multi institutions, and also that’s what we mean by, um, complimenting what other colleges are doing.

Phil Tietjen: Mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative>,

Grant Jolliff:  uh,  as other colleges are kind of waking up to this movement about editing and revising the syllabus to be more student focused, uh, coming in and kind of showing them some leaders in that field

Phil Tietjen: mm-hmm.

Grant Jolliff:  Who are actively in North Carolina community colleges and who have made some of those changes and have had, uh, experiences with that.

Phil Tietjen: Nice.

Grant Jolliff:  Um, and so, you know, it’s really a matter of complimenting, and it’s also a matter of leveraging strengths from certain community colleges and then using those to help other community colleges grow. Hmm.

Phil Tietjen: Okay. So I’m kinda curious about the logistics. So, um, will you, or have you guys already started, have you and Kristen already started meeting with like, the community colleges in your Piedmont region and started offering suggestions? Or is that something yet to come down the road?

Grant Jolliff:  Indeed, we have, and in fact, this week has been kind of a gauntlet of, uh, zoom calls with other community colleges in our, in our, uh, hub. So a few weeks ago, as the semester got underway, we decided that, uh, we were going to move beyond some of the kind of initial just feelers that we’d been sending out to, to, uh, associated community colleges and, uh, request one, uh, kind of interview with them through Zoom, and also request that they fill out a survey. And in this survey we listed about 12 to 13 professional learning opportunities that we thought might be of interest to them.

Phil Tietjen: Mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

Grant Jolliff:  And, uh, so, you know, we got the results of the survey back, and of course we found that there were, there were variations

Phil Tietjen: mm-hmm.

Grant Jolliff:  <affirmative>, um, in terms of what community colleges wanted or needed, and also in terms of how prepared community co some community colleges were in terms of delivering professional learning.

Phil Tietjen:  mm-hmm. <affirmative>

Grant Jolliff:  And, uh, you know, also, uh, discussions over the, the QEP, we found out that, that some, uh, some people just aren’t necessarily involved in talking about their QEP at their  campuses

Phil Tietjen: mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

Grant Jolliff:  And so we learned that as well, that, that that focus is not necessarily, uh, there like it is for us. And of course, right now for us at this present time, it’s a big-time focus, but <laugh>, at any rate, uh, the result was that we, we came up with we were able to determine that there were three professional learning opportunities that, uh, affiliated colleges really wanted to take advantage of.

Phil Tietjen: Okay.

Grant Jolliff:  from our list of about 12 or 13. And one is dealing with the tough students, so the students who have walls up

Phil Tietjen: mm-hmm. <affirmative>

Grant Jolliff:  for whatever reason

Phil Tietjen: mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

Grant Jolliff:  Um, and so, you know, how to kind of break down those barriers and, and interact more and, and get more interaction out of your, out of your students

Phil Tietjen: mm-hmm. <affirmative>

Grant Jolliff:  and, um, get that really that full picture of where they are and what they’re coming  into, into the classroom with

Phil Tiejten: mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

Grant Jolliff:  And then also DEI, diversity, equity, and inclusion was a big one. And, and we also folded into that, um, issues of accessibility, so, and, um, universal design.

Phil Tietjen: Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

Grant Jolliff:  So that will be, uh, kind of, uh, under the DEI category for now. Yeah. I like that connection to universal design, cuz that’s definitely a big thing, uh, in course design, correct.

Grant Jolliff:  Yes. Absolutely. And then, uh, the third one being student engagement. So those are kind of going to be the three hot areas that we’ll be focusing on in terms of developing programming for the spring, um, at least for the spring

Phil Tietjen: mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And. Yeah, those seem like certainly like challenging problems that should definitely generate a lot of discussion. And I can see, um, how people would really kind of, um, be very interested in the suggestions and feedback that kind of comes about as a result of those conversations that you have with them. Um, I also really like just kind of, um, stepping back from ’em. I really like the organic, um, nature in which you guys kind of set this thing up where it’s like you had like, what, like 12 different options of different professional development options they could choose from, or kind of least, you know, kind of select and, and how, um, you know, you’re just like, you know, saying, Hey, what are you guys interested in? Rather than like, okay, well let’s let Kristen and I decide, you know, what we think should be the most important. So I really like that kind of organic approach. I think that’s a really, um, that’s a fantastic way to go about it.

Grant Jolliff:  Yeah. And, and, uh, both Kristen and I are on the same page with this. We serve, see ourselves as servant leaders of the region.

Phil Tietjen: Mm-hmm, <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

Grant Jolliff:  And so, we, we don’t want to put together things that are just kind of, uh, from the top down. We want to, to really give them, give our affiliate colleges an experience that they can use.

Phil Tietjen: Yeah. That’s great. That’s great. Um, so in looking forward, I was curious, like, um, how, let’s see, how can I put this? Um, are you guys going to like, um, meet with like one now that you’ve decided on which, um, topics, you know, you want to focus on? Um, are you going to meet with each college individually, like, you know, representative or two? Or is it gonna be more like the kind of a, um, broad-based, you know, all the, the member colleges as it were in our region, we’ll participate in these kind of collective Zoom meetings? Or will it be a combination of both? Um, how’s it gonna happen like, you know, over the next, uh, few months logistically, in terms of giving us suggestions and whatnot?

Grant Jolliff:  Well, we have a, a method to our madness. So, uh, this week as a result of our initial requests for meetings and our survey, we’ve been able to meet with about seven different representatives from affiliate colleges.

Phil Tiejten: Okay.

Grant Jolliff:  And these are the ones who responded to our emails and signed up for a time to meet. So we’ve already been meeting with individual colleges and, uh, people. We, we term professional learning leaders mm-hmm.

Phil Tietjen: <affirmative>

Grant Jolliff:  from each individual affiliate college.

Phil Tietjen: Okay.

Grant Jolliff:  And, uh, the, the ones who are meeting with us are very gung-ho. So we’ve already met individually with the colleges that, that offered to meet with us

Phil Tietjen: mm-hmm. <affirmative>.

Grant Jolliff:  And our plan is then to build off that, um, at the system conference. So at the system conference, the North Carolina Community College System conference, we are going to have a, uh, reception, a hub reception.

Phil Tietjen: Oh, okay.

Grant Jolliff:  And it’ll be a kind of.

Phil Tietjen: Will it be in person?

Grant Jolliff:  Yes.

Phil Tietjen: Okay.

Grant Jolliff:  Yep. It’ll be a kind of a wine and cheese event

Phil Tietjen: mm-hmm. <affirmative>,

Grant Jolliff:  uh, where we get together with each other and kind of talk and, and just perhaps for the first time see each other, you know?

Phil Tietjen: Yeah. Yeah. Right, right.

Grant Jolliff: And, uh,we really plan to work the room there and, and get to know some of our affiliate colleges, uh, a little better and their representatives a little better.

Phil Tietjen: Mm-hmm. <affirmative> Great.

Grant Jolliff:  And then building off that, in November, we are going to have a, what we’re calling a kind of jam session with all of the affiliate colleges

Phil Tietjen:  mm-hmm. <affirmative>

Grant Jolliff:  present in person at Foresight Tech. Uh, we really want to encourage that in person engagement there. Uh, it’s becoming clear that we’ll likely have to have some sort of virtual option too, for people to kind of chime in, um, as needed from a, a different location. But the idea is to have that kind of, um, what we’re calling that ice cream sandwich moment where, you know, we’re, we’re sharing things and we’re actually sharing experiences and talking to each other. And, and in that meeting, in that jam session, it’s gonna be a kind of a schedule building session, but we’re, we’ll also drill down a little further into, you know, what schools are thinking about in terms of tough students

Phil Tietjen: mm-hmm. <affirmative>

Grant Jolliff:  what schools are thinking about in terms of DEI mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because again, what we think about might be something different than what they think about

Phil Tietjen: Yeah. Right. Right.

Grant Jolliff:  and a student engagement as well. So really drilling in to what they really mean when they say, we want professional development on tough students, students, we want professional learning on DEI on student engagement, really drilling in there

Phil Tietjen: mm-hmm. <affirmative>

Grant Jolliff:  and seeing what exactly is going to be most useful for them.

Phil Tietjen: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, again, each of those three areas just seem like really meaty and substantive you know mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, areas that I think a lot of instructors would be interested in, in having, not only having conversations about, but then also generating, you know, proposals for action, suggestions for action. Um, I just think that that’s, those, those three topics just seem like really ripe for, you know, um, a, a teaching and learning hub to really focus on. So I think that that’s great. Great.

Grant Jolliff: And it’s at that meeting in November where we’ll get to know a little more about what the strengths are of each community college as well

Phil Tiejten: mm-hmm. <affirmative>,

Grant Jolliff:  what they might be able to offer to different institutions

Phil Tietjen: mm-hmm. <affirmative>

Grant Jolliff:  in the hub, what we can leverage mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, we are also, if I may plug in, uh, we are also planning to, at that, well, at that same event we’re planning on having, achieving the dream.

Phil Tietjen: Oh yeah. Same event. They’re involved in this as well. Right. Right. Yeah.

Grant Jolliff:  So at that same event in November with the professional learning leaders from across the Piedmont Hub, were planning on doing a, a session with ATD called, um, in incentives motivation and building institutional support. Cause it’s those professional learning leaders who are going to be really building up, uh, that institutional support from our affiliate colleges. They’re kind of that boots on the ground, uh, winning hearts and minds for the Piedmont Hub at their affiliate colleges.

Phil Tietjen: Okay.

Grant Jolliff: So we’ll be doing some professional learning for them on how to build that, uh, institutional support for professional learning.

Phil Tietjen: And that to me seems like a really critical piece because it’s one thing for a group, a task force or what have you, to come up with a response to a particular problem. But sometimes what can happen is then it kind of dissipates or disappears over time. People are like, you know, oh yeah, I’m really excited about trying to respond to this. We came up with a good idea in this given semester. But then, um, sometimes what can happen is the team kind of goes its own way and a report gets filed on the shelf and the digital shelf and like, you know, just nothing really kind of happens afterwards. And, you know, you don’t have that sustainability element. And what I really like about that collaboration with ATD is they really seem in collaborate in conjunction with you guys to really be focused on that sustainability challenge. Not only how can we come up with ideas and strategies, but then how can we sustain them over time? And that’s what really kind of impresses me about that, that collaboration with ATD.

Grant Jolliff:  Um. Yeah, ATD is a big partner along with the, the Belk Center. Oh yeah. The.Carolina too.

Phil Tietjen: Right, right, right.

Grant Jolliff: And, um, among other, and also the, the North Carolina Community College Student Success Center, those are the, the three big names, uh, who are really leading the development of the hubs. Okay. We aren’t the first hubs to be up and running. Um, the East Hub and the West Hub were the first, and they came on in earnest about a year and a half ago. So, a lot of the knowledge that we’ve been, been given, um, and has been from them, you know, cause they’ve done this for a year before the, uh, Piedmont or the central hubs ever. Started.

Phil Tietjen: Okay. Okay. All right.

Grant Jolliff: And so they are the ones who came up with this term professional learning leaders and

Phil Tietjen: Oh, really?

Grant Jolliff:  And have, have emphasized the role that professional learning leaders play in getting the word out and in, uh, supporting the work of the hubs at our different institutions. Wow. That’s, so it’s thanks to them for all that information.

Phil Tietjen: Wow, that’s great. That’s great. Yeah. And it’s kind of really, um, just impressive again, like how, uh, you have like these different regions then kind of, you know, building off one another’s strengths and, and that kind of thing. So, um, and you may have already kind of answered this just with that comment right there, but will there be opportunities in the future for, um, the co-leads, for lack of a better way to put it, you know, such as you and Kristen to meet with the other kind of, you know, servant leaders, uh, to use your term of, of the different regions, in other words, for all the leaders of the regions to get together and kind of swap notes. Um, is that gonna happen somewhere down the road or more than.

Grant Jolliff:  Once? Yeah, so I’ve, uh, we’ve already been, we’ve already met each other. Okay. Um, physically a number of times.

Phil Tietjen: Oh, okay.

Grant Jolliff: And we’ll continue to do so.

Phil Tietjen:  Oh. That’s nice.

Grant Jolliff:  Um, yeah. Yeah. And, and we, we really do kind of rely on their, their  information

Phil Tietjen:  mm-hmm. <affirmative>,

Grant Jolliff: uh, as far as building out our own program, but we’re also really looking forward to kind of branding our own programs

Phil Tietjen: mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative>,

Grant Jolliff:  uh, giving that Piedmont Hub brand

Phil Tietjen: mm-hmm. <affirmative>,

Grant Jolliff:  um, to our own programs.

Phil Tietjen: Nice. Nice. Great. Um, so couple other questions, and I don’t wanna take up too much of your time. Um, but, um, how long is this, like at least year and Kristen’s role supposed to last is like just an academic year? Or does it go beyond, is it two academic years. Or?

Grant Jolliff:  So it, it is a three year contract. Okay.  And then afterwards it is really up in the air what happens afterwards as far as, um, I think everyone of course would like it to continue, but there are just so many forces.

Phil Tietjen:  Right, right, right.

Grant Jolliff:  At work here that, that we don’t know. But we’ve got a, a three-year shot and, um, we are, you know, building that this first year and then, um, offering some professional learning to faculty and staff, which I’ll mention here in a minute.

Phil Tietjen:  Mm-hmm. <affirmative>,

Grant Jolliff:  uh, but also kind of dreaming what we’re going to do in that second year, and then really dreaming about what we’re going to do in that third year.

Phil Tietjen: Oh, wow. So, it’s kind of incrementally kind of ambitious vision.

Phil Tietjen: Yes. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> Wow.

Grant Jolliff:  Oftentimes we come up with, with great ideas, and we say that is a, that is a third year <laugh>, that is a third-year idea, or that’s a second year idea.

Phil Tietjen: Okay.

Grant Jolliff:   And so, it’s really, um, planned out very well right now. And our kind of the people who’ve come before us have given us license to say, okay, this is what, this is that we can accomplish in one year

Phil Tietjen: mm-hmm <affirmative>,

Grant Jolliff:  but also have given us license to really dream about what we can do in  those second and third years.

Phil Tietjen: Mm-hmm. <Affirmative>, it’s great to have that space and latitude to, to, to kind of think in those big terms.

Phil Tietjen: Yeah. Yeah. That’s great. That’s great. Um, and then again, this may be a bit premature, but are you guys supposed to generate some kind of like report at the end of every year? Or I’m guessing at least at the end of the three-year cycle that you’re, you know, involved.

Grant Jolliff:  With? So there is a reporting process, um, and we are in relationship. Every hub is in relationship with TV practices, which is a, um, data science company.

Phil Tietjen: Oh, okay.

Grant Jolliff:  That kind of crunches numbers and, and collects data. Uh, and really that is to kind of show us how we’re serving faculty